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November 29, 2008

Monitor-ing ()

by fluffy at 11:40 AM
So, my trusty old HP 2335's backlight has been fading for a while, and it's gotten to the point that I'm seriously considering getting a new one. The Dell WFP2408 looks pretty good, and right now it's only $517.

Conveniently enough, it also has HDMI, DVI, and DisplayPort, which means it's possible that when Apple finally gets around to releasing a miniDP→DP adapter I can use it with my MacBook Pro as well (and then allow my G5 to continue its steady decline towards "the file server in the corner" status).

I was kind of considering the new Apple LED Cinema Display (even though it's a little pricier) since it's definitely a nicer solution for the MacBook Pro, but then I'd be entirely without a monitor for the G5, and I'm definitely not ready to swtich to the MBP for everything. Of course, even with a single monitor which works on both, I'd end up having to get a USB switch, and then I'd have to figure out which devices I want to switch and so on. (Gah, why does this have to be so complicated?)

Ideally there'd be a 30" LCD with both DVI and DisplayPort, but right now it appears to be an either-or thing. But 30" also seems like it'd probably be too big for my desk, and also then I'd have to worry about the new remapping of my Wacom tablet. I don't think any monitor size would really give me a different amount of art workspace, due to the way I work, but it would definitely help with music (yes a 24" monitor feels cramped when I work on a sufficiently-complex song).

Of course I'll want to wait a couple days before making a decision, seeing as how Dell is likely to put an even bigger sale on their monitors on Monday.

Meanwhile, they have some very excellent deals on LCD TVs, including a Sony 52" Bravia V for $1600. I'm pretty tempted by that since when I'm playing games I feel like my 40" TV just isn't big enough, but on the other hand, do I really need that? I can just, you know, sit closer to the TV. (Also I might want to just hold out for an XBR, since that has xv.ycc/deep color.)

Although, hm, Amazon has plenty of excellent deals on other 24" monitors. Of course Amazon's comparison engine is nonexistent, so it's hard to decide which one's the best value. (Of course none of them have DisplayPort, but at only 1920x1200, the normal DVI adapter is sufficient for the MacBook Pro, but I'd still need multiple DVI inputs, which most of the other 24"s don't have.)

Comments

#11499 12/01/2008 06:12 am
Go ahead and buy a Dell PVA panel if you happen to enjoy suffering from ridiculous (50+ms) input lag. Recent firmwares make the problem even worse.
#11500 12/01/2008 08:02 am
Well, I'm putting it on a Mac, so obviously I don't need it for gaming.

Do you have any other recommendations? I don't mind spending a bit more for better quality, but that's so far the only 24" I've found with both DVI and DisplayPort. Although, even just having multiple DVI inputs should be fine (but I haven't found any others with that simple criterion either).
#11501 12/01/2008 08:08 am
Looks like the Samsung T240HD might be up my alley. Only one DVI, but it has two HDMI, and adapter cables are cheap (and supposedly Apple will eventually put out a miniDP->HDMI adapter anyway). Plus, that has a built-in HD tuner so I can have even MORE distractions when I'm trying to work!

Although it seems to have some blackpoint issues, based on the reviews.
#11502 12/01/2008 08:17 am
Argh, computer parts sites never say anything about input lag, and on NewEgg whenever I find another monitor which looks like it's suitable, it turns out it's a 6-bit panel instead of 8-bit (which I only find by reading the reviews - NewEgg still claims it's capable of 16.7M colors!), which rather defeats the whole point to this upgrade.

I really wish people selling monitors would provide those two useful specs!
#11503 12/01/2008 08:26 am
Meh, turns out I missed the sale on the 2408WFP anyway. Thanks for your arbitrary wild price fluctuations, Dell!
#11504 12/01/2008 08:57 am
I find more than a single frame of input lag to be intolerable even for just moving the mouse around. But that's me. And yes, it's hardly ever advertised, which I think is criminal. Google "AnandTech LCD thread" for more info.

I'm enjoying my BenQ G2400W (24", TN, $380 from Newegg). Even though it's a 6-bit TN and probably not the best for my budding photographic work, it has amazingly low lag. You might want to find a LCD that's based on the Philips 26" H-IPS element... there was one branded "DoubleSight" for a while but I can't find it now.

But yeah, skip PVA, and fuck Dell. Fuck Dell hard.
#11505 12/01/2008 09:43 am
Hm. Of course, the problem with H-IPS is that monitors based on it are still rather expensive. The NEC LCD2490 is around $1100, and the LCD2690WUXi is $1200ish. The Planar PX2611W is closer to reasonable at $850 but at that price I'd might as well just get the Apple Cinema Display and also get an LED backlight (although then that brings me back to the whole DVI issue, ugh).

How does the BenQ handle the 8->6bpc downconversion? Does it posterize (like my old HP), does it do a fixed dither, or does it do FRC (per-frame error-diffusion)? If it's FRC I might be willing to live with that. The old MacBook did FRC on its display and it didn't bother me at all.
#11506 12/01/2008 09:59 am
Incidentally, the Dell 2407WFP-HC I have at work has a similar input lag (30-50ms according to this review) and it doesn't bother me at all.
#11507 12/01/2008 10:39 am
I think the BenQ dithers, at least, judging from the Lagom test. I don't have much of a problem with its picture quality save for the fact that it has an interesting idea of what "sRGB" means... but I'd rather have a slightly wrong gamma than input lag.

The DoubleSight 26" H-IPS was $680 on Newegg last I checked, but I don't think it's available there anymore.
#11508 12/01/2008 10:56 am
Wrong gamma is definitely not an issue for me since the very first thing I do whenever I get a new monitor is run SuperCal.

Fixed-position dithering (like "pattern" in Photoshop) bugs the piss out of me. FRC dithering (like "diffusion" in Photoshop except it changes on every screen refresh - this is also what I had implemented for the 8-bit paletted displays on BREW Sprung, as you may recall) doesn't bug me at all.

From the Lagom test I find that the 2407WFP-HC has terrible banding issues. Hm. My MacBook does much better at that, although the Lagom test does show some other issues, and it looks like they're both actually doing FRC. Huh.
#11509 12/01/2008 11:22 am
According to the AnandTech thread, the BenQ G2400WD ("essentially the same" screen as the G2400W) is a FRC. It's definitely dithering per-frame, though using a predictable pattern.

Whatever it does, it's pretty much the same as any other 6-bit TN LCD I've had the pleasure of using.
#11510 12/01/2008 11:27 am
Oh, if FRC is standard now, then, I don't have to worry so much. My HP 2335 just didn't dither at all and some other screens from that vintage did a fixed pattern dither.