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June 30, 2011

Google+ and identity (, )

by fluffy at 8:43 AM

If you're reading this, you probably know me as "fluffy." You might be aware of what my real name is (or at least my real first initial), but that's probably not the way you think of me in terms of my identity, unless you're one of the few real-life friends who calls me by my real first name (usually because you're a coworker or family member or the like).

I am of course now on Google+, but Google+ has done something insidious: they've taken the same route as other social networks where they champion the real name as being a much more valid identifier than the way that people actually know me. They've always required a "full" name (so I used the standby "fluffy <3" for that), but now they also specifically prevent non-letters in the fields. Sucks to be you if you're one of the people who have legally changed their name to a mononym or to include a numeral; also sucks to be you if you're one of the people who don't want to broadcast their real name to the Internet.

Google's public policy blog shows that they understand the need for pseudonymous identities, but they seem to have completely forgotten that such a need extends to Internet social circles (despite one of their top examples of such a need being Twitter). In particular, while most fields have a "restriction" field (to show who gets to see it), the real name field does not have such a restriction possibility. Just as with Facebook, your real name is your Internet name.

But even worse, when you change your name on Google+, that applies to all Google products, so suddenly GMail and Reader Shared Items and +1 and so on would refer to me by my legal name. I'm concerned that when my GMail for Domains account is finally merged with my apps account, suddenly my email will be sent with my Google+ name instead of my separately-configured email name. It'll also apply to any other identity-based Google services which may come about later. It's very insidious.

It's also a bit interesting how for all the talk they have about the fine granularity of "circles" for item sharing, they don't apply that granularity to the profile information. There's no way to restrict, say, your phone number or your mailing address only to your "friends" and "family" circles, for example — if someone is in a circle then they get all your information. Maddeningly, this is something even Facebook got right.

Oh well. At least they allow a gender of "other." For now, anyway. Who knows when some product manager will get a hair up their butt about being binary-normative.

See also: The case against drop-down identities, which I just found while searching for other thoughts on this issue. It's only going to get worse.

Comments

#14027 06/30/2011 10:24 am
And this is why I have two Google identities, one with my real name, one with a pseudonym.
#14028 06/30/2011 10:26 am
Sure, so do I, but the pseudonym one they want to act like a real name too. For now I'm just using "fluffy critter."
#14029 06/30/2011 10:30 am
Bum, i was hoping someone'd get this right for once, and from the mention of "Circles" on the front page i was even optimistic.

Also it's bloody annoying that they tied YouTube in with the rest of their system, now logging in to my old account there logs me out of whatever gmail or greader accounts i'm currently reading in other tabs.
#14030 06/30/2011 10:32 am
Yeah, Google's authentication stuff is perpetually broken and half-finished, and only getting worse. It gets really spastic when you start to factor in things like their half-finished 2-factor auth, too, especially where things like apps vs. domain vs. gmail accounts are concerned, and then my main account can't even transition over to the new auth infrastructure because of some legacy accounts on services that are changing to the new framework "real soon" (for the last few years) so things are just always breaking and weird.
#14031 06/30/2011 10:46 am
Do you think this (the True Names thing) is an ideologically / legally motivated position, or are they just being thoughtless?

Would pointing out the problem to them accomplish anything, do you think?
#14032 06/30/2011 10:51 am
Well, I did provide feedback on the profile page regarding this, and I suspect that what will come of it is my profile will be suspended for not being a real name.

And yes, I suspect that the emphasis on true names is largely political, but also largely because of just some weird ideological basis on making the Internet reflect reality and vice-versa, because there's a lot of people who truly believe that anonymity is a DOWNSIDE to the Internet.
#14033 06/30/2011 10:59 am
One of these days i'm (never) gonna make my own site -- Morlocks United: The Friendly Borg Social Network. Scratch all that "Friend" and "Follow" and "Watch" stuff, let people define their own relationship names and types and behaviours. The web should be a tool for the formation of geographically dispersed subcultures (such as particle physicists or amateur encyclopaedians or obscure language programmers or furry fans or whatever), not just a crude caricature of real life...
#14035 06/30/2011 10:25 pm
Right now my account is kind of screwed up, because I use an Apps account. Google finally made it possible to merge a Google account with a hosted Apps account. Unfortunately, hosted Apps accounts don't yet support profiles, and therefore don't support Google+. They've said it's "coming soon" for a while but now EVERY Google service is requiring the use of profiles, so things are kind of, you know, stupidly broken. Hopefully they won't be soon.

In the meantime, at least I still have access to the legacy account, although who knows what will happen to the data when (or even IF) migration is ever possible.

Such a stupid convoluted mess. Oh, and as a result of this crap I've also lost my various Google Reader connections, although I didn't do much with that anyway aside from sharing items into what was probably a giant unread black hole anyway.
#14036 07/01/2011 04:53 pm
I'm stunned at how many of my Facebook friends have said "Yay! Signing up for Google+! Goodbye Facebook!" as if Google is any different.

Moxie Marlinspike was right.
#14037 07/02/2011 03:47 pm
Somewhat less evil is still an improvement.
#14038 07/02/2011 04:35 pm
It's not evil exactly, i'd say, just *really* wrongheaded, and therefore quite surprising coming from Google, who until now generally seemed to Get It.

I have the impression that there's currently an argument going on, among those who get to build (and therefore decide the future of) these things, about whether the web should be regarded as kinda like a place, or merely another form of communications system, like telephones or whatever. The latter group want everything anyone ever does online to ultimately always be traceable back to their true name, thereby abolishing online anonymity forever.

I'm firmly in the former camp.. obviously it's not literally true but it just seems to me to be a much more appropriate, fruitful metaphor to use for our online lives.. we talk about "visiting" sites, not "downloading the latest version of" them, for example.

This isn't a matter of degree, of quantity of evilness, but of quality -- one type of system is fundamentally ideologically incompatible with the goals of the other. We want online personas to be unconnectable to the human bod behind them, Facebook, Google+, etc just don't, apparently.
#14039 07/02/2011 06:52 pm
Lamar:
Somewhat less evil is still an improvement.


Google is more evil.
#14040 07/02/2011 07:05 pm
Ooo, mind if i ask how exactly? Not that i'm disagreeing or anything, it's just that (from my outsider's perspective) Facebook seems far far more willing to cynically exploit their users than Google ever overtly has. There must be something obvious that i'm missing, here.

I've seen *tons* of techie people express similar sentiments to yours, and never quite understood what's behind them.
#14041 07/03/2011 01:15 pm
nervous energy:
Ooo, mind if i ask how exactly?


http://i.imgur.com/OlaR9.png

Google has the capability - in terms of technical R&D, capacity, and nerd-juice buy-in - to do far more damage than Facebook. They haven't, yet (unless you count their complicity in Chinese censorship). But they're a publicly-traded corporation, and are more subject to shareholder whims than to Larry Page's personal ethics. Not that I want to trust either.
#14042 07/03/2011 01:17 pm
#14047 07/07/2011 08:40 am
I actually saw that in some "what is it?" page a link to my google profile which I've done nothing with it but it now told me it was "hidden" because I didn't have a full name on there. *That* linked to some help page about what is "required" to have a profile now including the gender thing. Unfortunately the only links on the page to complain or comment seemed useless -- post in a forum, yay! But it did also suggest there should be a "report an issue" link in the top nav bar that I could use ... except I couldn't find such a link anywhere except on gmail, not the profile page. So I haven't complained yet.

Yes that was a long rambling paragraph to say I tried to complain but gave up because it was confusing.
#14048 07/07/2011 09:57 am
Yeah, the "report an issue" link only appears on certain pages, and it's all DHTML+AJAXy and stupid. What if the issue is with the "report an issue" link?

Anyway, my take on the Google profile name policy is that the name has to identify you to your friends and cannot be used to impersonate someone else. As long as they don't require a LEGAL name, and don't remove the "other" gender option, I'm okay with it, although of course I'd prefer if the identifier be a bit more flexible and allow non-letters (and of course your identity is tied to R343L online so their current solution isn't workable for you).
#14058 07/12/2011 10:39 am
Update: Google requires real names after all.

Well, so much for that.
#14059 07/12/2011 10:40 am
nervous energy:
One of these days i'm (never) gonna make my own site -- Morlocks United: The Friendly Borg Social Network. Scratch all that "Friend" and "Follow" and "Watch" stuff, let people define their own relationship names and types and behaviours. The web should be a tool for the formation of geographically dispersed subcultures (such as particle physicists or amateur encyclopaedians or obscure language programmers or furry fans or whatever), not just a crude caricature of real life...

Incidentally, that is how "circles" effectively work. Making it even more of a shame that G+ is yet another place insisting on "real" identities overriding actual identities.